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This is, I suppose, a legal question so I should point out that I'm most interested in US and European law.
I made a payment to a company for a product more than a year ago in bitcoin. The amount that I paid then was equivalent to $75. Now the company has failed to provide the product and they and I both agree that I'm owed a refund. However, we disagree on the means.
The company wants to refund me - in bitcoin if I wish it - to the value of $75 of today's money. It seems to me though that I should be refunded what I paid: i.e. the same BTC value that I paid. The value of bitcoin has increased substantially since I made my original payment, meaning that the BTC amount I paid then is now worth 5-6 times more.
I happen to know (through their blog posts) that the company in question does keep stocks of bitcoin rather than converting them to a fiat currency, so they have benefited from this. That said, I don't think it should matter either way.
My logic
You can consider bitcoin in one of two ways: a) a currency or b) not a currency. The conclusion is the same either way. Let's explore both:
a) BTC is a currency
If BTC is a currency then this is an easy question. I should be refunded what I paid, in the currency in which I paid it.
b) BTC is not a currency
If a bitcoin is not currency then is it unarguably an asset. Surely in this case I have given a valuable asset to the company as my end of an implied contract for them to provide the goods. Given their failure to provide the goods, they must return the asset: not a fraction of it.
Fairness
I think that, regardless of the legal side, it's fair for me to receive a full refund. Given that bitcoin has increased in value, one of us has to profit from this. It seems very unfair to me that the company should profit from their failure, whilst at the same time preventing me from making that profit myself.
I appreciate that I'm not exactly neutral in this, so I'd like to know what others think. Am I being reasonable? If I am, do I have a legal leg to stand on?
Edit:
Having read through the responses, they seem to have one or both of two themes.
- "The price wasn't in BTC, it was in dollars with the option to pay this via bitcoin."
- "Being able to claim a refund of the original BTC amount would open the door to risk-free speculation."
For the first, this is open to interpretation. If I was being pernickety, I'd probably say this was down to the wording of the sale. However I agree that - practically - it's pretty obvious that $75 was the price and BTC was a payment method, along with Visa, Paypal etc.
The concept of "legal tender" is one that was raised too. For something to be "legal tender'' means that one may not refuse an offer to pay a debt with that currency. It doesn't talk about refunds though: if I'm owed €1000 by someone in the US then I must accept the dollar equivalent even if I'd rather Euros. This is still €1000 though, not "whatever €1000 was worth when I entered the agreement.''
For the second, that is indisputable and probably represents the biggest flaw in my position. I would point out that the refund is not my doing: I would rather have received my order but the company cancelled it. However, that probably makes no difference ultimately.
Thanks for all the opinions. It looks like the overwhelming consensus is that I am being unreasonable, so I'll give up on my demands and accept the refund.
14When you bought the product did you agree to pay
X bitcoinsfor it OR$75that you could also pay in bitcoin? Were there any other payment options (paypal, visa, etc) available at that time? – George Kimionis – 2014-11-14T08:24:02.0403How would this work if you were ordering internationally by credit card from a country that uses, say, Euros. Would you expect the same dollar amount refunded, or the same Euro amount? – xorsyst – 2014-11-14T10:57:59.833
4c) BTC is not a currency : the company exchanged it at the time of purchase at a rate you both agreed upon to the base currency, now you are owed a refund they convert the same base currency value back to bitcoin at the current rate. I think you know what you are suggesting is not fair or reasonable otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to justify it. – JamesRyan – 2014-11-14T16:10:54.490
@GeorgeKimionis I can't remember. There were other payment options to pay in dollars obviously, but I can't remember the wording of the payment and it's now offline. – CharlieB – 2014-11-14T17:41:31.947
2@JamesRyan I feel the need to justify it because the company disagrees with me. – CharlieB – 2014-11-14T17:45:25.077
@xorsyst I googled this but couldn't find an answer. Naively, I'd expect to get refunded in the currency I used. Say I'm in the US and I buy something from Europe. My card statement shows either "$X" OR "€Y using $-€ rate xxx". In the former case I'd expect X dollars back; in the latter I'd expect €Y, converted at the current rate. – CharlieB – 2014-11-14T18:01:51.727
3"Given that bitcoin has increased in value, one of us has to profit from this." This does not follow. Many merchants who accept BitCoins automatically immediately convert them into a local currency. If the merchant did this, then neither of you has profited -- unless they honoured your request, in which case you would profit and they would lose. – Jeremy Banks – 2014-11-15T00:49:38.847
It is completely unreasonably to expect to make a massive profit from a refund! The whole point of a refund is to put you back into the position you were in before you spent the money. If you wanted to gamble on bitcoin prices, ordering something then asking for a refund is not the right way to do it. Is this hashfast? – Lembik – 2014-11-16T19:05:43.150
@Lembik Two words Contra proferentem (interpretation against the draftsman)
– Aron – 2014-11-18T03:53:16.590@Aron Happily (or sadly) the law is not so simple. There are many principles and at any given time you have to argue why yours applies and why another seemingly contradictory one doesn't. In this case, we are asking which currency a refund should be in and if bitcoin is even a currency for the purposes of this discussion. My reply was not legal but merely answered the question of what was reasonable. It is reasonable to be made "whole" by a refund. It is not reasonable to either make a huge loss or profit which is what would have happened if bitcoins were used for refunds. – Lembik – 2014-11-18T13:11:14.297
@Lembik Your arguement maybe true that it is REASONABLE to refund USD. However from a trading commodity trading point of view, there is no difference between a fiat currency and a commodity. Failure to deliver by the delivery date is a failure to deliver. The original trade must be unwound. Even if you were to repay in USD you MUST repay with the carry cost of the USDBTC forward contract, which I could only peg against computing power code and electrical power cost. Not to mention the loss of optionality on the BTW position. – Aron – 2014-11-18T13:27:41.950
@Aron You make a very confident assertion but I don't think it can be relied on. You are right the original trade must be unwound. The question is what was the original trade? As I understand it the price was quoted in dollars and people were given the option to pay in the dollar equivalent of bitcoins. As has been said many times, if the value of bitcoins had plummeted, how would people interpret a refund that didn't cover the original dollar cost? Also, your argument seems to use the language of a trading exchange where this should be covered by standard consumer legislation. – Lembik – 2014-11-18T13:30:44.133
@Lembik hence it was up to the seller to define it as the contract drafter. The law is clear that if there is ambiguity (especially in a take it or leave it contract), then it resolves in whichever way benefits the receiver of the contract. My point is that there IS ambiguity in the original contract. – Aron – 2014-11-18T13:33:49.587
1@Aron Right, I understood your point. My point is that life is not so simple. There are a number of principles at play including one of reasonable expectations. Would the buyer have honestly expected to have made a loss if bitcoins had gone down in value and they had been due a refund for non-delivery? I, personally, would have been furious if that had happened and would have argued that I had not been made "whole" by the refund. I haven't seen the original contract. What exactly did it say about paying bitcoins? – Lembik – 2014-11-18T13:35:19.047
@Lembik NO. The OP did not expect non-delivery. It is only the seller who has the ability to estimate the likelihood of non-delivery, thus take a position to mitigate such a possibility. Such as taking a USDBTC option. – Aron – 2014-11-18T13:46:06.700
Let us continue this discussion in chat.
– Aron – 2014-11-18T13:48:04.6034Having discussed this at some length... Aron and I disagree :) – Lembik – 2014-11-18T14:27:51.533